This frame design is over 3 years old, and has been replaced with a new model. That said, the old bike is hardly dated. [L=http://www.tonicfab.com/howie.php] The new Howie is on our site[/L], as well as the [L=http://www.tonicfab.com/howiert.php]Howie R/T for racing[/L]. Love the "doesn't look strong" comments about a bike which has proven it's self to be quite the opposite over the years. We (owners)actually ride. We also have a team which tests our stuff. I guess we don't blow our horn loudly enough for the Bike Scholars to notice... -L

ganstask8er: [B]You get what you give. [/B] It's hard to imagine having an intelligent discussion on topics as broad and detailed as manufacturing, design or quality control with someone who writes like 3rd grader. I worked for a Taiwanese bicycle frame manufacturer for over 4 years. My partner for 10. I've been to Taiwan on numerous occasions. It wasn't for vacations. We've had Tonic for the past 4, going on 5 years. I know a little bit about the topic of bicycle frame quality. Using terms like "head tube flange" and "tapers" speaks to your experience. Look, I know what you are getting at. Why spend a bunch of extra money on a Tonic, when your Giant works fine? Obviously there are quite a few differences between a Howie and an STP. If you can't see those differences... see my point above about "head tube flanges." There's a million reasons to just ride a Giant. There's a million reasons people want bikes other than Giants. Ask someone why they are drinking a micro brew instead of a Coors the next time you are out. Now, I'm out. -L